How Eternal is Eternal?--Part 2
There are many scholars who tell us that no ancient language had a direct expression of "eternity" as we know it today. The Hebrew olam literally means "obscurity" and expresses the idea of an indefinite or an unknown period of time. Other languages follow similar patterns.
The Hebrew Old Testament began to be translated into Greek around 280 B.C., that is, about 40+ years after the death of Alexander the Great. His conquests made Greek the common and commercial language from Italy to the Euphrates. In the first century, Paul wrote a letter to the saints in Rome using the Greek language, knowing that it was the common language used there, which all would understand. There were many Latin dialects in Italy and North Africa, but Greek was the language that most of them had in common.
Alexander the Great built the city of Alexandria in Egypt and invited Jews to immigrate there. Many did, and within a generation many of them no longer spoke Hebrew. This created a need for a Greek translation of Scripture. Hence the Septuagint was produced by 70 Hebrew scholars.
When they came to the Hebrew word olam, they rendered it by the Greek equivalent, aion and aionian. So technically, it matters little how the Greeks actually used aion. What really matters is how the Hebrews used olam. The Greek term was only the closest word they could find to express a Hebrew concept. So even if one was speaking or reading Greek, it was necessary to think Hebrew.
Even so, aion was used by the Greeks to mean an eon, or age, a period of time that might vary widely, but in the end it was a limited period of time.
As Rome consolidated its empire, Greek remained the language of culture for a long time. Even so, there were many local Latin dialects throughout Italy and North Africa. In particular, the Latin spoken in North Africa was quite different from that spoken in Italy. The first Latin translation of Scripture (into "Old Latin") was of the "African" type, largely free of Greek influence.
From about 190-220 A.D., Tertullian of Carthage, who was a Roman lawyer, used this Old Latin version, which is how we even know of its existence. When it was introduced into Italy, its grammar broke many of the rules of more refined Latin and its roughness grated on their nerves. And so many took it upon themselves to make corrections and refinements. Soon there were a multitude of Latin translations, and it was said that there were as many translations as there were manuscripts!
This was the situation in the fifth century when Jerome decided to produce a standard Latin translation of the Bible. Up to that time, the Septuagint had been the most widely used version, but the need for a Latin translation was by this time quite apparent. So he spent considerable time learning Hebrew from the rabbis.
In the course of translation, Jerome had to translate the Hebrew olam and the Greek aion into Latin. Essentially, he had two Latin words to choose from, each being used in the various Latin dialects. These were seculum and aeternum.
Seculum, as defined in Latin dictionaries, meant a generation, an age, the world, the times, the spirit of the times, and a period of a hundred years (being the outer limits of a man's life span).
The more important question is how Jerome viewed the meaning of the word aeternum. Being fluent in Greek, Jerome certainly knew the meaning of aionian. He must have known that the Latin word aevum, which (letter for letter) was almost identical to aion, was used to denote "lifetime, life, an age." According to Alexander Thomson's book, Whence Eternity?, page 20, "Aevum is never found in Latin standing for endless time."
On page 17, Thomson writes,
"Farrar says that even the Latin Fathers who had a competent knowledge of Greek knew that aeternum was used in the same loose way, for an indefinite period, in Latin writers, as aionion was used in Greek."
Jerome appears to have compromised by using both seculum and aeternum interchangeably. Out of 130 occurrences of aion in the New Testament, Jerome translated it seculum 101 times and aeternum 27 times.
A thousand years later, when the Reformers began translating the Bible into the common languages of the people, they generally followed Jerome's lead. Where Jerome used seculum, the English translators used "world." Where Jerome used aeternum, Tyndale particularly used "for ever."
In the 16th century, Phavorinus' Etymologicum Magnum states with a certain irony,
"Aion is the imperceptible (aidios) and the unending (ateleutetos), as it seems to the theologian."
In other words, theologians were equating aion with other Greek words that were used in the New Testament to express the idea of unending time. Phavorinus decided not to contradict established Roman doctrine, but he softly registered his protest.
He knew, of course, that a thousand years earlier, the Emperor Justinian had taken it upon himself to extend the meaning of aionian in Church doctrine to indicate unending time. Justinian wrote a letter (about a century after Jerome's time), in which he says,
"The holy church of Christ teaches an endless eonian (ateleutetos aionios) life for the just, and endless (ateleutetos) punishment for the wicked."
It is obvious that Justinian had to add a word to aionios to make it truly mean "eternal." He is the emperor who called for the Church Council of Constantinople (548), where Origen and others were anathematized for the first time. Justinian objected to the long-held view of the Restoration of All Things and wanted to ban it officially. Even so, the Church Council merely condemned Origen's view that Satan and his angels would be saved in the end, without referencing the ultimate reconciliation of all men.
Universal Reconciliation was not actually condemned by a Church Council until 696 A.D.
The idea of never-ending torture for most of humanity came primarily out of the Latin Fathers: Tertullian, Cyprian, and Augustine. Their view was that evil was a force apart from God. Mankind was conspersis damnata, massa perditionis, "one damned batch and mass of perdition," and only a few would be saved out of it. With such a view, it is not surprising that they would have extended the meaning of aeternus to infinite time.
In the end, however, it does not really matter what the Latin words originally meant or how these words have changed in meaning over the years. All that really matters is what the Greek words meant when the New Testament writers used them. And more importantly, what matters is not what the Greek word means but what its Hebrew equivalent means (olam). The Septuagint had used Greek words to express Hebrew thought. Though the Greek meanings were usually near to the Hebrew thought patterns, certain words like hades did not adequately express the Hebrew concept of sheol.
In the case of olam, however, the Greek word aion was a near equivalent. Neither expressed the idea of endless time, but obscure or indefinite time. The Latin aeternum started out as a proper translation, but later it was extended to mean "eternity" as we know it today.
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9 comments:
FYI Dr. Jones is a Mormon. This doesn't change the historical facts that he cites IMO.
If the best people arguing for your points are heretics and worse, that would level some kind of indictment. I mean . . . if it is true, then people who love the Truth will find it and champion it. Not people who love lies.
“The Hebrew olam literally means "obscurity" and expresses the idea of an indefinite or an unknown period of time.”
So . . . the “Olam God” is the God of obscurity, the God that last an unknown period of time? I buy the latter only if “unknown” means “unknowable”, as in “infinite”.
Adam and Eve in the garden (Gen. 3) were kept from the tree of life lest they live for olam . . . lest they live for an indefinite or unknown period of time? I mean . . . we all live for an indefinite or unknown period of time . . . Live for an obscure period of time? Please!
Daniel 12:2 “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to olam life , and some to shame and olam contempt.” Tell me . . . what is the duration of that olam life after the resurrection? Indefinite? NO . . .that would be a misuse of “indefinite” . . . my employment with Northrop is “indefinite”, but my life after the resurrection is clearly known.
“Even so, aion was used by the Greeks to mean an eon, or age, a period of time that might vary widely, but in the end it was a limited period of time.”
Mark 10:30 “But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time , houses , and brethren , and sisters , and mothers , and children , and lands , with persecutions ; and in the aion to come eternal life . “
He says there has to be a limit. What is the limit of that aion to come? Maybe there are parts of your theology I don’t know.
“the Latin Fathers who had a competent knowledge of Greek knew that aeternum was used in the same loose way, for an indefinite period”
aeternum becomes the root of our “eternity” . . . which never MEANS “limited duration” Whatever “indefinite” means, it does not mean what is forced upon aionios.
Let that sink in . . . whatever the twists and nuances that are sought to apply to aeternum, remember that secular people carried that original meaning over to our “eternity”. aeternum becomes “Eternal”!
If the best people arguing for your points are heretics and worse, that would level some kind of indictment. I mean . . . if it is true, then people who love the Truth will find it and champion it. Not people who love lies.
Listen to you. "A heretic or worse". What kind of judgmental statement is that? Not everyone labled as a heretic is a heretic. You label everyone who believes differently than you on this as a heretic. Then you dismiss their arguements no matter how true or logical because you have already labeled them as "heretics". Paul refers to himself as a heretic. You should agree with Paul that he is a heretic because he clearly teaches the ultimate reconciliation of all. He is my best witness. No! correction. Jesus and God the Father are my best witnesses. Followed by Paul and the prophets.
Paul also said this:
Ro 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
For all have fallen short of the glory of God. There is none who is righteous, no, not one.
God has considered us all in unbelief that He might have mercy upon all.
Your haughty judgment, accusing the men who disagree with you of not loving truth, and of being heretics and worse is based on what? Is it possible that they love and desire truth as much as or more than you?
Tell me how you are condidering others as better than yourself in this?
I'm sure that you are justified in this, but my inferior mind cannot comprehend how? Which of these two men would you say resembles you?
Lu 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
From my imperfect perspective it appears that you would pray like this:
"God I thank thee that thou hast given me the wisdom and strength to receive thee unlike these heretics who don't love truth and who reject your Son. Of course they could have chosen thee but unlike me they refused which hast made the difference and allowed me to be favored by thee. Thou knowest I have led my family in ATI and we go to church faithfully twice a week.
if it is true, then people who love the Truth will find it and champion it. Not people who love lies.
I love the Truth, have found this truth in Scripture, and I will share it with those who have ears to hear it. Though I am certainly no champion.
Gary Amirault loves the Truth and he has been championing this message.
Gerry Beauchemin loves the Truth,and he has been championing the message of the reconciliation of all.
Origin, one of the earliest church fathers loved the Truth and he definitely championed the ultimate reconciliation of all.
Tim Lynch loves the Truth and he has found this teaching and opened this blog to help others become aware of it.
In fact, there are many devout men who champion the Scriptural testimony of the ultimate reconciliation of all. There are also many whose character may be questionable, but if this is a reason for rejecting a teaching, then most of Scripture should be rejected. Moses, Paul, Peter, David, Solomon, Jeremiah, Elijah, Jacob, and any number of others all had major events that could be brought into question in their lives. I don't hear you rejecting the Psalms just because David stole his own faithful soldiers wife and then had him killed to cover his sin. Or rejecting Solomons teachings when he had sex with maybe a thousand different women, and admitted that he gave himself over to folly just to see if it had value. Or rejecting Peter's teaching just because he flaked out and denied Jesus at the hour of trial. I don't hear you preaching against Paul's epistles even though he persecuted believers, was the chief of sinners, and admits that when he wants to do whats right he can't, or even though he asked the Lord three times to remove the demons who were buffeting him, God refused. No, God uses imperfect people today, just as he always has. How about you, are you perfect? What qualifies you to champion Eternal Damnation? Are you a better person than Gary Amirault, or Gerry Beachemin, or Tim Lynch, or Me? Do you love the Truth more than we do? What evidence do you have that we love lies?
Mark 10:30 ... and in the aion to come eternal life . “
He says there has to be a limit. What is the limit of that aion to come? Maybe there are parts of your theology I don’t know.
Yes, maybe.
The verse you quote finds Jesus answering Peter. Jesus spoke often of the end of the aion. Mt 13:39,49;Mt 24:3; Mt 28:20. Then in Hebrews we find the very same phrase that Jesus used, "end of the aion" here: Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the [aion] hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
The writer of Hebrews, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit notes the time of the end of that aion. Therefore the aion to come was the one that followed, the one we now live in. The aion where Christ lives and reigns on high and dwells in the believers and they in Him. (aionios life)
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the [aion] are come.
Adam Clarke believed in Eternal Damnation and was an excellent scholar. Far exceeding me in knowledge. I offer his comments regarding this verse:
Adam Clarke's Commentary:
Verse 11. Upon whom the ends of the world are come.] ta telh twn aiwnwn. The end of the times included within the whole duration of the Mosaic economy. For although the word aiwn means, in its primary sense, endless being, or duration; yet, in its accommodated sense, it is applied to any round or duration that is complete in itself: and here it evidently means the whole duration of the Mosaic economy.
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Commentary:
the ends of the world--literally, "of the ages"; the New Testament dispensation in its successive phases (plural, "ends") being the winding up of all former "ages."
In this, I agree with these commentaries, though I confess you would have far more occaision to concur with them than I.
So . . . the “Olam God” is the God of obscurity, the God that last an unknown period of time? I buy the latter only if “unknown” means “unknowable”, as in “infinite”.
Why do you try so hard not to understand? Nowhere did Dr. Jones indicate that the word was describing how long God "lasts". I checked ten thesaurus's and not one put infinite with unknowable?
aionios theos or aionios God is only found once in the entire New Testament! Theos and aionios are found together in 18 verses, only one uses aionios to modify God.
Ro 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Is it unreasonable to understand God as one who has condescended to be the God of the ages? Should no reference be made regarding this magnificent truth, that God remains the God of the ages and concerns Himself with everything in this life?
Mt 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Isn't this a marvelous thing? God is intimately involved with us in this life. He is the God of the ages and the length of the ages is obscure.
In a way, God Himself is obscure. Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time... 3Jo 1:11...he that doeth evil hath not seen God.
Isa 45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
But I don't think that is the proper sense of olam and aionios, as used to describe God, even if it is the underlying idea behind the word and neither did Dr. Jones.
Tell me . . . what is the duration of that olam life after the resurrection? Indefinite? NO . . .that would be a misuse of “indefinite” . . . my employment with Northrop is “indefinite”, but my life after the resurrection is clearly known.
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
You are already living after the resurrection. Yet you do not know how long you will be alive in this aion. It is indefinite. After the end of time, we know that it will be endless because we will put on immortality. Till then, we don't know. We don't know how long we will live in this aion, or the next. When the aions end, as Scripture says they will, then time will be no more. That is definite.
Daniel 12:2 “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to olam life , and some to shame and olam contempt.”
It also says: Joh 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Do you remember in Revelations when John was about to worship the "angel"? That would be "messenger". For we read:
Re 22:8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
9 But he said to me, "Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God."
Here we have a man, a fellow servant, a prophet who is living in another aion. In this aion, he is serving God in ways unimaginable, but there are others mentioned in Revelation who don't fair so well.
Re 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
And those who are serving Him are commanded:
Re 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Who do you suppose we are saying this to?
Why do you suppose there are these trees mentioned in Paradise?
Re 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
This is the age to come. The leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations. Those who come to know Jesus now, will have the joy of administering the healing to those who are raised to judgment and who are outside the gates. Those who are shut out from the presence of God in judgement may even be loved ones of ours. What joy when we tell them, "Come. And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost." And they respond.
I tell you there will be more joy in heaven over a single sinner who repents than over a hundred who don't need to.
I hope I have answered all the questions you have raised in the last comment. I have certainly tried. If I missed one, let me know.
Good night and God bless you.
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