Friday, June 11, 2010

WHAT DID JESUS MEAN? I WILL DRAW ALL TO MYSELF?

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

LOGIC, WE COULD SAY, is the study of If-then sentences.
If a number is divisible by 10, then it is divisible by 2.
The clause introduced by If --
A number is divisible by 10
-- is called the hypothesis. It is what we are given, or what we may assume.
The clause introduced by then --
It is divisible by 2
-- is called the conclusion. It is the statement that "follows" from the hypothesis. Or, given the hypothesis, it is the statement that we must prove.
When the If-then sentence is true, we say that the hypothesis is a sufficient condition for the conclusion. Thus it is sufficient to know that a number is divisible by 10 -- in order to conclude that it is divisible by 2.
The conclusion is then called a necessary condition of that hypothesis. For, if a number is divisible by 10, it necessarily follows that it will be divisible by 2. (Taken from www.themathpage.com/abooki/logic.htm)


Jesus professed, “IF I be lifted up, THEN I will draw all unto myself.”
Logic says, IF the if part of the equation is accomplished, THEN (in order for the statement to be true), the second part of the equation,( the then part) must also be accomplished.

It hardly needs to be noted that the first part of the equation is truly fulfilled for in the very next verse it affirms: Joh 12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. And again,
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

So Jesus clearly was lifted up, therefore we can conclude that He also will draw ALL unto himself.

In this equation, it might be speculated that the word “draw” simply means to create an attraction, or an appeal, something that may be resisted by some of the all it has been directed towards. For example, “Bob’s charismatic personality draws all the girls in his class to him.”
Of course, they don’t all become united to Bob, they are merely attracted but not compelled to move, like the draw of a magnet, perhaps, where a magnet exerts a drawing force on all iron, but only the iron that is loose or light enough actually moves to the magnet.

IF this can be shown to be the meaning of “draw” here in this verse, THEN those who believe Jesus will ultimately bring all to Himself can NOT appeal to this verse for support.

In such a case the verse would merely mean Jesus will attract all, some of which will respond and some who will not. The IF/THEN logic would remain intact and the sentence would be true if this is the sense of the word "draw" as found in the various Scripture verses that employ it even though many people do not actually get moved unto Jesus.

However, if it can be shown that “draw” means to successfully relocate an object even against the will of the object, even in the face of resistance, then the verse would have to have a totally different conclusion, one which becomes a very strong support for the ultimate reconciliation of all. So let's see how "draw" is used in Scripture.

The Greek word translated “draw” is “helkuo”. It is found eight times in the New Testament. Join with me as I search out exactly what meaning it has . I believe the absolute best way to discover the meaning God intended when He inspired the original writers to choose the words they used, is to examine the different verses any particular word is used in. As I mentioned, “helkuo” is only found eight times, so it is relatively easy to check it out. Before we do this, Let's consult “Strong’s Concordance” for its definition of this Greek word.

helkuo, hel-koo'-o
or helko hel'-ko; probably akin to 138; to drag (literally or figuratively):-KJV-draw.

The sense that the scholars who compiled “Strong’s Concordance” attributed to the word “helkuo” is “to drag”.

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will “drag” all unto myself.

Of course, these scholars were not perfect, and they could have, for one reason or another, ascribed an incorrect sense to the word “helkuo” so it is important for us to look at the different times it is used in order to see if we can discern the true sense of the word.

The first verse I would like to examine is Joh 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

In this verse we find Peter exercising the power of helkuo over his own sword. The sword, being inanimate, could not choose one way or another, yet if some mechanical jam had occurred, and Peter was unable to draw the sword as a result, scripture would have to say, Peter tried to draw his sword but he could not! The useage here indicates a definite relocation through pulling.

That’s just one verse which indicates, “draw” (helkuo) means more than “create an attraction” or “ become appealing” . Let’s see how the next verse uses helkuo.

Joh 21:6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were NOT ABLE TO DRAW it for the multitude of fishes.

In this verse we find that even though they had the fish in a net, the net next to their boat and their hands firmly grasping the net, they were unable to "helkuo" the load of fish. These were strong fishermen, experienced at their trade. The fish had been attracted to the boat somehow but they were unable to draw the net full of fish because the catch was simply too large. If draw simply meant “attract” then it might have been said that Jesus “drew” the fish into the disciples net, but the way John used the word “helkuo”, (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit), clearly shows that the idea of anything less than accomplishing the process of transplanting, in this case fish from water to the land, or to the boat, is NOT helkuo’ing. They were “NOT ABLE TO DRAW”.

Okay, two of the seven verses we checked, have a clear useage. In both verses we see that the idea helkuo carries is the changing of position of an object with a pulling motion as opposed to a repelling motion and definitely not referring to mere attraction. Let’s look at a third verse.

Joh 21:11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.

This verse is completely consistent in it’s use of “draw” or “helkuo” with the previous two verses. Again a net full of fish is the object being “drawn” only in this case, the operation was successful and the net didn’t even break under the load of one hundred and fifty three fish. The net full of fish was drawn from the water to the land. Let’s move on to the fourth verse that uses the Greek word “helkuo”, remember, Jesus said He would "helkuo" all unto Himself", so if the meaning in Scripture remains consistent, then we have a sure promise, but if it can be shown that there are two uses, then we can't be so sure which one Jesus meant.

Ac 16:19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, AND DREW THEM into the marketplace unto the rulers, 20 And brought them to the magistrates…

I don’t know how enthusiastic Paul and Silas were about going to the marketplace with these men but the idea that they had to be “caught”(vs.19) and "brought"(vs. 20), indicates they may have been a bit hesitant about being “drawn” into the marketplace. The sense is that Paul and Silas didn’t go into the marketplace of their own free will here. “Caught and drew” seems to fit with “Strong’s” definition – “to drag” more than with the idea of “alluring by attraction”, and again we see that the objects of “helkuo” ended up in another location, by the will of the one “drawing” not of themselves.

So far, “helkuo” has always been used as a force applied by one, causing another object to move to a new location, in other words, the object has never provided the energy to move itself, but rather seems to resist the move and the force is provided by the one “drawing”.
Only three more verses. What will we find?

Verse number five is Acts 21:30, but let’s look at a few surrounding verses for background and clarity.

Ac 21:28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.29 (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

Ac 21:30 And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and DREW HIM OUT OF THE TEMPLE: and forthwith the doors were shut.

The story continues:
31 And as they went about to kill him, tidings came unto the chief captain of the band, that all Jerusalem was in an uproar.32 Who immediately took soldiers and centurions, and ran down unto them: and when they saw the chief captain and the soldiers, they left beating of Paul. 33 Then the chief captain came near, and took him, and commanded him to be bound with two chains; and demanded who he was, and what he had done.

The intensity of the situation is level red. Word had gotten out that Paul had defiled the temple by bringing Greek men inside, an offence punishable by death.

The point is, Paul, most obviously was not intending to leave the temple at the moment they “drew” him out. They didn’t stand outside and cook delicious smelling food and tempt him to join them. They forcibly removed him from the temple and began beating him with the intention of killing him. Not likely something Paul had given them permission to do.

So far, the useage is very consistent. Let’s move to the next verse.

Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

Attendance at these hearings was compelled, non optional and often guaranteed by escorts. These readers of James letter were not allured to stand before the judgment seats by promises of good things but were forced to stop what they were doing, and go where they would have not otherwise gone except for the power that was exerted over them to draw "helkuo" them.

Other than the verse we are searching out, Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. There is only one verse left, which uses the word “helkuo” and I saved it for last because when you understand the force of “helkuo” you will appreciate so much more the meaning of this verse:

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The saving power is ALL God’s! He begins it and He finishes it!

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Who did God not foreknow? He created everyone, so he had to foreknow everyone.) 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Mt 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Do you believe it is “POSSIBLE” for God to save all men? Jesus did.

Do you believe it is possible for any man to save himself? Jesus didn’t.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

This passage has been a source of confusion for many. They read the first part, verse 12, as if it means receiving and believing causes them to be born of God, but if you look carefully, you will see that the receiving and believing are the result not the cause. It is found in the very next verse. The birth was not of their will, but of God… Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

God dragged them in to the new birth, therefore they receive and believe. Or more directly, God drew us into the new birth, therefore we received and believed. He is the beginning and the end.

This brings us full circle. When Jesus said:

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

He wasn’t suggesting that He would attempt to become an attractive force to all men, but that He would relocate all men from where they are in the world, to himself in His glorious kingdom. Total victory over sin and death. There is nothing in this verse which would qualify ALL to be less than ALL, and it would be completely inconsistent with the use of “draw” to suggest that it means anything less than a total relocation powered by Jesus Himself and not requiring any cooperation on the part of those being drawn. The evidence that it has occurred is that the objects of His mercy receive and believe.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father...

4 comments:

ACorduan said...

Jesus professed, “IF I be lifted up, THEN I will draw all unto myself.”

Logic is only as good as the assumptions you make (called "postulates") that feed into the logic.

For example, you assume that "draw" is equivalent to "draw in".

But it isn't. Not every thing drawn is "reeled in". Quite the contrary. So . . . all your logical assumptions based on your initial false postulate are also false. Drop that one fast

Proof: "The magnet draws all metal unto itself" . . . this is a true statement, based on physics . . . EVERY magnet excerts a drawing force on EVERY piece of metal in the universe. Just like EVERY item with mass draws EVERY other item with mass unto itself.

The force is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of their separation distance. So . . . all you need is the distance . . . and the two masses . . . and you know EXACTLY what the force is.

The fact is that not all items drawn are "drawn in". All orbiting bodies prove this . . . always falling toward one another, never reaching each other.

Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it

There are multiple ways in which the same word is used. To "Draw" a pencil across paper has NO relationship to a magnet that "Draws" all iron to it. The first is the meaning here . . . NO relationship to what you are trying to prove. Even if I draw the sword, the process may be interupted . . . NO guarantee that the intent in the initiated action is completed.

And . . . explain how "drag" comes into play. Frankly, it doesn't . . . you do not "Drag" a sword . . . unless you are cutting someone's throat, I guess. Doesn't apply here.

they were NOT ABLE TO DRAW it for the multitude of fishes.

Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes

DREW THEM into the marketplace

took Paul, and DREW HIM OUT OF THE TEMPLE

draw you before the judgment seats

In each of these instances the force on one side exceeds the force on the other side. Or . . . the law (with force) permits this dragging.

So you are BEGGING THE QUESTION :-) Clearly not every attempt to drag someone into the marketplace succeed . . . say when the law intervenes. Like it did right after Paul was dragged in. Where God's own law intervenes and countermants, He will NOT drag a person in violation of it. That is crystal clear. The responsibility is placed by God at the feet of the one who chooses . . . His judgement and response is based on that choice.

Which is the proverbial "Elephant in the Room" that you so easily drag your theology over.


Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Read the NEXT verse:

John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that HATH HEARD, and HATH LEARNED of the Father, cometh unto me."

The drawing only works for those who HEAR and LEARN and ARE WILLING.

Much love,

-Alfred

Jack said...

:)

Hi Alfred.

For example, you assume that "draw" is equivalent to "draw in".

If you read the blog, you would see I made no assumptions regarding the meaning of draw. I merely looked at every time the Greek word translated draw was used in the New Testament. I acknowledged other possible uses of draw even mentioning the magnetic one you re-introduced.

Pr 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.


John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that HATH HEARD, and HATH LEARNED of the Father, cometh unto me."

The drawing only works for those who HEAR and LEARN and ARE WILLING.


I see the part that says "that Hath Heard", and "hath learned", and you add "are willing". Of course everyone who has heard and "learned" will be willing. Else they haven't learned.

That's why we have the prophecies:

Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Hab 2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Clearly expressing that ALL shall "learn" hence, "know".

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

ACorduan said...

Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Hab 2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Clearly expressing that ALL shall "learn" hence, "know".


The wicked are removed from the earth, cast into hell, which clears the last hurdle to His glory and knowledge filling the earth. Where do you get that that wicked all "learn"?

The contructs in John 6 become ludocrus with the wrenching you are putting them through . . . One thing you will be on that day is "without excuse"

As to Is. 11, it says exactly that:

4 " . . . with the breath of his lips SHALL HE SLAY THE WICKED."

Clear out the wicked . . . then peace will come.

Jack said...

The wicked are removed from the earth, cast into hell, which clears the last hurdle to His glory and knowledge filling the earth.

Cite verses please.

Where do you get that that wicked all "learn"?

Among other places, try this one:

Re 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

The contructs in John 6 become ludocrus with the wrenching you are putting them through. . .

Please explain.

As to Is. 11, it says exactly that:

4 " . . . with the breath of his lips SHALL HE SLAY THE WICKED."


Are you implying that when the Lord slays the wicked, that this is somehow an eternal slaying? Have you forgotten?

Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

The Lord has been slaying the wicked since time began. This does not speak to the issue of what happens to them after they die. Your preconceived ideas are so strong, that you cannot even read about about God ending a life without assuming eternal damnation.