Will Jesus Draw All Men Unto Himself?

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.Joh 12:32

Here Jesus gives us a simple If, Then, equation. If I be lifted up…

We know from the next verse that He was “lifted up”…

This he said, signifying what death he should die.Joh 12:33

So, we know that the IF portion of the equation has been fulfilled, therefore, in order for Jesus to be telling the truth, the Then portion of the equation must also take place sometime. He didn’t put a time limit on the fulfillment of the equation, but only stated that He would “draw” all men unto himself.

It would be a good thing to find out exactly what “draw” means, wouldn’t it? Fortunately for us this Greek word is used enough times to get a pretty good picture of what it means. We can look at every time this root word is used in the Bible by using a Greek concordance. The word is helkuo, and here are all the verses it is used in:

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Joh 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
Joh 21:6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.
Joh 21:11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.
Ac 16:19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers,
Ac 21:30 And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut.
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

This word, helkuo, definitely has the quality of force behind it. Peters sword had no say in the matter; The net full of fish couldn’t resist Peter’s pull, even though Peter is not omnipotent. Paul and Silas didn’t voluntarily go into the marketplace. We don’t voluntarily go before the judgement seat at the hands of rich men. Yet Jesus said,

If I be lifted up, I WILL DRAW ALL MEN unto me.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:8

Come to Jesus, He is reconciling all men unto himself.

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 2Co 5:19

Scripture Gives a real example of Eternal Fire in Sodom!

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7

Sodom and Gomorrha are an example, suffering the vengeance of “eternal fire”! Now here we have a comprehensive picture of what the Bible means when it says “aionios pur” or “eternal fire”. First of all, the fire stopped burning after a few days, everyone was dead within moments. But does the Bible talk about Sodom and Gomorrha after this demise? As a matter of fact, it does! God is chewing out Judah through the prophet Ezekial. Listen to what he says!

Eze 16:46 … thine elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, is Sodom and her daughters. 47 Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways. 48 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters. 49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good. …

It’s clear that we are talking about the same Sodom.

53 When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them:

Wait a minute… bring again their captivity? Like when Jesus led captivity captive?

54 That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them. 55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.

The same Sodom that is an example of eternal torment? Returning to their former estate along with wicked Judah? How can eternal torment include "returning to their former estate"?

…60 ¶ Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.

Ah, “Nevertheless I” says the Lord. I will establish an everlasting covenant unto thee. (For by grace are ye saved and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.)

61 Then thou shalt remember thy ways, and be ashamed, (repentance) when thou shalt receive thy sisters, thine elder and thy younger: and I will give them unto thee for daughters, but not by thy covenant. 62 And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: … when I am pacified toward thee for all that thou hast done, saith the Lord GOD.

At some time in the future, God makes reference to a time when He will be pacified for ALL the evil things done by Judah, and God is no respecter of persons.

This occurs right after Judah comes to knowlege of who the Lord is, and scripture says:

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Forever and an Age

by "co-blogger" Jack Dortignac

The best way to determine the meaning of a word is to look at the way it is used. This is especially true regarding scripture. Don't trust what men say a word means, but rather look at how God uses the word in His Word. Aion is the main Greek word used by most Bible translators (for notable exceptions see Young's Literal Translation, 1898 & The Concordant Literal Translation, 1926) to express the idea of eternity, but is this what God means by aion?

How many eternities can we have?

Mt 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him, neither in this [aion], neither in the [aion] to come.

Lu 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this [aion] marry, and are given in marriage:

Lu 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that [aion], and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Is eternity going to have an end?

Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the [aion]; and the reapers are the angels.

Mt 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this [aion].

Mt 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the [aion]: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Mt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the [aion]?

Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the [aion]. Amen.

Mr 4:19 And the cares of this [aion], and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

All the above verses would make perfect sense if aion were translated age or eon. They happened to be translated "world" (KJV) since it was too obvious the preferred "eternity of forever" wouldn't work. It's interesting that Greek has a great word for "world," which is kosmos. Out of about 170 times kosmos is used, it is translated "world" in all but one instance.

Anyone who has studied languages knows that there is often not a perfect single word which can be used to translate any given word; however, it is highly unlikely that a word would have two opposite meanings such as time and timelessness, or time and eternity! If this were the case how would we ever be able to determine the meaning?

Consider the following example: If the word tall meant tall and also could be used for short, it would be impossible to determine the meaning of any sentence using the word tall unless you had other supporting information. "Go into town until you see the tall pine tree, then turn left." This would be helpful if only one pine tree stood in town. But, of course, this makes the description tall unhelpful to our cause.

Comments Welcome! (and now possible!)

I just realized that I hadn't flipped the switch on allowing anyone to comment!  My apologies.  Now, if you don't have a blogger account you can comment as "anonymous" (of course leaving your name in the comment!). Now our hundreds of readers can enter the discussion.  Ok.  Both of you:)

The Hell we know & love...

So...what happens to your faith if Hell is not the forever Hell that was advertised?

1. I won't be motivated to witness to people (they're all going to see Jesus eventually, right?)

2. Some people just need to go to Hell (Hitler, child abusers, tax cheaters).

3. I won't be motivated to remain faithful to Jesus (where's the prize if everyone makes it?).

4. Hell having a limit just can't be right. All the Bible scholars I know wouldn't believe it.

5. Where is the "fear of the Lord" if there is no everlasting punishment?

6. ____(fill in the blank with your comments)_________

*C'mon, you have better reasons than these. Share your reasons and we'll talk about it this week.

Who Belongs to the Lord?

For whom the LORD loves He reproves,
Even as a father corrects the son in whom he delights

Proverbs 3:12 (NASB)

I thought about titling this piece "Purpose driven discipline" to show that it is not in the character of God to punish His created ones forever. However, this verse from proverbs reveals more than God's love driven reproof. Implicit is the Fatherhood of God.

Three questions come to my mind:
1. Who does the Lord love?
2. Does the Lord delight in his children, as an earthly father would?
3. Who is a son/daughter of the Lord?

For God so loved the world (Jn 3:16). All the world. I don't believe that there is or has been a soul on earth that God does not love. And, he certainly disciplines & delights in all his children. That leaves us with a question concerning His children: "Who belongs to the Lord?"

Consider these notes from Gerry Beauchemin's book Hope Beyond Hell:

*God created man in his own image....(Ge. 1:27; 9:6).
*I said...all of you are children of the Most High (Ps. 82:6).
*You are our Father...our potter; and all we are the work of Your hand (Is. 64:8)
*Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us (Mal. 2:10)?
*Seeing the multitudes.... in this manner pray: our Father... (Mt. 5:1; 6:9).
*Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples....one is your Father (Mt. 23:1, 9)
*Men of Athens....For we also are His children. Being then the children of God... (Ac. 17:22, 28-29 NAS).
*I bow to the Father...from whom the whole family in...earth is named (Ep. 3:14-15).

(Hope Beyond Hell p. 53)

The diversity displayed in these verses puts everyone in the net of God's Fatherhood ("All," "multitudes" - even the ones who were just following Jesus for the food!). It would be difficult to make a case against God being the Father of all. These scriptures bear out the Lord's ownership of all. And all that he loves will be disciplined. For a purpose. To bring them all into right relationship with Him.

Food for thought: Concerning Hell, how can we attribute unloving punishment, that is punishment without a purpose, to God? What Earthly father would consider everlasting punishment for a son? How could the love of an earthly father even compare to our Heavenly Father?

If Hell is eternal, Where is God?

7 Where can I go from Thy Spirit?Or where can I flee from Thy presence?8 If I ascend to heaven, Thou art there;If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, Thou art there.

Psalms 139:7-8 (NASB77)

Have you ever meditated on the traditional view of Hell? If you are like me, you didn't give it much thought (other than you didn't want to go there!). I knew I was a Christian and that one of my jobs was to warn my friends and acquaintances that they didn't have to go there.

Well, I'm not going to write a new song called "Hell is a wonderful place," but I do want to challenge the traditional view.

Consider our God. Always a wonderful activity. He is omnipresent, of course. Will he be in Hell? Of course he will. While we live out our eternity with him in heaven, will he continue to be present to the suffering and agony of most of his creation? Scripture bears out that he will (that is, if Hell is forever). His character and attributes will never change. He will be present to the souls suffering in Hell. Is that the picture you had of eternity? That God would be enduring the continuous suffering of his creation never to end?

Well, there is another possibility. One that I had not ever considered before recent discoveries. Maybe Hell was never supposed to be forever.

Yes, I know, heresy right?

The significance of the Broad Way

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matt 7:13-14 (KJV)

Many, or perhaps better understood, most will follow the "broad way." The way that does not lead to life.

So, does this mean that most of God's created souls will never reach Him? Or, if we strip away the layers of Christianese, does this mean that the Devil will win more souls than God?

I believe that this perspective is inconsistent with the power, love and intent of God and his salvation purposes (as noted in my earlier post "5 reasons"). There are many important biblical connections that need to be made to support this idea. However, let me just make one right now:

Has tradition clouded our judgment concerning the broad and narrow ways? We have often traditionally understood all good/bad (sheep/goat, good soil/bad soil, etc.) associations in scripture as end time scenarios. There is no need for this. We can find many references to the "Day of the Lord" in the Old Testament that signify judgment coming in either their generation or a coming generation (See Is. 13:6; Am 5:18).
The "broad/narrow" ways can refer to benefits to this present life (certainly true!) and/or, if you are willing to accept it, a form of judgment to come at the end of this age with more opportunities for the "broad way" subscribers to pursue Jesus.

As in most posts here, I expect to raise more questions than I answer. However, by the grace of God and the help of friends and the writings of others, I hope to present a strong biblical case (and friendly discussion) for a "God Sized Hope."

5 reasons you can believe in the final salvation of all mankind

(from 150 Reasons for believing in the final salvation of mankind, by Erasmus Manford 1849)

Seeing how 150 reasons take a long time to read, here are 5 that stood out to me. All the reasons are important and scriptural. You can find Manford's full writing here: 150 Reasons!

(Note: I have numbered these 1-5, but they are really numbered differently in Manford’s paper as noted)

In brief here are the 5:

Reason #1 God is Love, is infinitely good.

Reason #2 God is Omnipotent.

Reason #3 It is the will of God that all shall be saved.

Reason #4 No power can defeat his will.

Reason #5 God is the Savior of all men.

Now investigate why Mr. Manford believes these reasons are important:

Reason # 1 (Manford's #3) God is love, is infinitely good. “There is none good but one, that is God.” Mark 10:18. On the words “God is love,” Dr. A. Clarke, the celebrated Methodist Commentator, writes as follows: An infinite Fountain of benevolence and beneficence to every human being. He hates nothing that he has made. He cannot hate, because he is love. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good; and sends his rain on the just and the unjust. He has made no human being for perdition. It has been well observed that although God is holy, just, righteous, etc., he is never called Holiness, Justice, etc. in the abstract, as he is here called Love. This seems to be the essence of the Divine nature, and all other attributes to be only modifications of this.” God, then, never created a soul knowing it would be miserable forever.

Reason #2 (Manford's # 4) God is Omnipotent. “The Lord Omnipotent reigneth.” Rev. 19:6. Therefore, nothing is too mighty for him to do. He can save the world. Where is the Christian who would not redeem all mankind, had he the power? God possesses the power, and will he not do it? Is the creature better than the Creator? God forbid any should think so.

Reason #3 (Manford's #12) It is the will of God that all shall be saved. “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” I Tim. 2:4. Of course, as ‘God is love,’ it must be his will that mankind should be saved. An infinitely good being could have no other will. And as he is infinite in knowledge he could not so will unless he knew all would be saved. He could not will that that should take place which he knew never would.

Reason #4 (Manford's #13) No power can defeat his will. “Thy will be done.” Matt. 6:10. “He doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?” Dan. 4:35. “He worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.” Eph. 1:11. The will of God, then, will be done. No power can defeat it. It is certainly a doctrine of revelation that our God will save all men.

Reason #5 (Manford's # 19) God is the Savior of all men. “We both labor and suffer reproach because we trust in the living God who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.” I Tim. 4:10. God is called the Savior of all men, because it is his will and purpose that all shall be saved, and because all necessary means are provided for its accomplishment.

Making God Room

Some time ago I started a blog with the same title. It's something God spoke to me years ago. "Make God Room." I puzzled over the idea for a time. I eventually felt God was helping me set a life goal--a message from God: "make room for Me!"

Recently--actually today--I thought those words might take on a different, perhaps more important meaning. "Make room in your theology for God sized thinking. Specifically, a God sized salvation!

About 2 1/2 years ago I was introduced to a new idea about God's plan of salvation for man. I am still processing that idea. This blog is a part of that process.

In brief the idea is this: that God will eventually win every man, woman and child to himself. That this wonderful achievement will be accomplished through the work of Jesus and his followers. That this salvation is expressed thoroughly in the Bible.

May God bless this conversation.