Paul's side of an early church debate!

1Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Some Corinthian believers were saying that there is no resurrection of the dead! Just as some believers today say that once you're dead that's it, you can't be saved unless you made prior arrangements. But Paul concludes that if there is no resurrection of the "dead"... then Jesus is'nt raised. He clinches his arguement by saying. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." The same amount of people who die shall be made alive. Paul repeats this astounding claim three more times in Romans.

Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. - Here the word many is used both for those who die, followed by "much more" for those who get the free gift. But just in case there is any doubt, Paul goes on...

Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. - All!

Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. - How many were made sinners? All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. All! How many SHALL be made righteous??? The same many at least for the next verse states:

Ro 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did MUCH MORE abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

I believe in the resurrection of the dead as well as the living.

Ro 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

That they may be one...

"It is a tragedy that Christians unite on doctrinal or creedal bases when there can be no absolute certainty about them. The basis for fellowship ought rather to be in the realm of love, commitment, and trust than in systematized doctrines, codified beliefs and intellectual thought. Should any grounds for fellowship be more important than faith and love in relation to our Lord Jesus Christ and a patient on-going quest for truth? Love, prayer, worship, praise, study, questioning, and discussion can all be part of fellowship one with another. Believers should be encouraged to question and discuss among themselves the most profound topics of the Scriptures as freely as they talk about the weather or the World Series in sports. there should be no strife, contentions, factions, no fear of recrimination or embarrassment or of being branded a heretic." (Daniel Andersen. Bible Study - A personal quest, page 22

the righteous purpose of God's judgment
FREE Book Download!

"In essentials, Unity;
in non-essentials, Liberty;
in all things, Love."
A Call To Unity
By Gerry Beauchemin
"[Be] diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace." Ep. 4:3

Our tradition has indoctrinated us to reject anything outside our theological "boxes." Everything outside is labeled heresy. It’s the same with Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and Christian denominations (Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal, Non-Denominational, etc.). We are all locked into systems, and only when we question and investigate our beliefs, do we find truth and even life beyond them. The Lord commanded us to judge for ourselves what is right. (Lu. 12: 57) And the Apostle Paul exhorts us to test all things ( 1Th. 5:21). Will we obey the Lord and not allow the fear of man to influence or control our convictions? (See Ga 1:10) For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

For the rest of this article click here.

God Presents Himself To Us According To Our Disposition

2Sa 22:26 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful, and with the upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright.
27 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself unsavoury.

As we develop to me more like Christ, God reveals Himself to us more as He is. This could be why most "christians" think God will carry out the execution and permanent torture of most of His creation. This also would explain why those who cannot see God as successfully reconciling every last person to Himself, are not phased by the abundant scriptural and linguistic evidence plainly saying so.

If 2Samuel 22:26 and 27 mean what they plainly say, an open minded Bible believer who believes God is going to some day involve Himself in eternal cruelty, should examine himself to see if he is lacking in mercy, uprightness and purity in Christ.

The phrase "with the froward thou wilt shew thyself unsavoury." uses "froward" to translate <`iqqesh> which according to Strongs means, "distorted". One who is distorted has less than a clear understanding, which is why they cannot decide if God is Sovereign or if He is controlled by our Will. The debate rages on for them because in this distorted understanding, Sovereign God who is Love, created most of the human race to be in His image, but also to be tortured forever... well, this seems wrong, so introduce free will, dumping the responsibility on man... but of course, that doesn't really work either. Distortion. God claims He works all things after the counsel of His will. Free will claims God's will that none should perish is thwarted by man's will to reject Jesus even though many die without hearing about Jesus. Contradiction/distortion.

To the distorted, thou wilt shew thyself to be unsavoury, which is morally tortuous, (twisted).

If your image of God is that of a being who is twisted, (a loving Father who is going to torture and torment his children forever and ever...while telling us to love our enemies...) then I recommend you check your own mercy level. When we are merciful, God will present Himself to us as merciful. You will then be able to see a more accurate image of who God really is.

Hi Tony! ;)

Love Story

She is confused, but he see's through her confusion. Her hair is a mess, but he see's her potential for beauty. She is rejected by false lovers who only really love themselves, but he loves her unconditionally with a true interest in her. She is poor, but he has wealth untold. She comes from a family that has a bad reputation, his reputation is flawless. She is feeble and sickly, his health and strength know no equal. She is ignorant and unlearned, he is a teacher. She lives in a poor neighborhood, he has houses and lands and good servants who love him.

She, is you and He, is the Lord Jesus! He has proposed to you, you will accept his proposal and because he first loved you, you will love him with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.

Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Song 5:2 I slept, but my heart was awake. Hark! my beloved is knocking. "Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my perfect one; for my head is wet with dew, my locks with the drops of the night."
3 I had put off my garment, how could I put it on? I had bathed my feet, how could I soil them?
4 My beloved put his hand to the latch, and my heart was thrilled within me.
5 I arose to open to my beloved, and my hands dripped with myrrh, my fingers with liquid myrrh, upon the handles of the bolt.
6 I opened to my beloved...

In this account, she heard him knocking but she waited too long. Her hesitation caused her to miss a blessing. I encourage you to listen diligently and be ready to open your soul to Him whenever He knocks. Receive Him unconditionally, surrender to His will. Know Him. He is your lover.

Reflections and Considerations

Jesus shared a message that He knew would be rejected by most. He also knew that the religious establishment would be His greatest opponents but He preached the gospel anyway! Knowing that most would reject Him and shun Him for the message He was sent to share, He shared it anyway. The message He shared, the claims He made, paved the way for His crucifixion, yet He continued speaking the truth. That, my friends, is love!

Now we have an opportunity to share in the fellowship of His sufferings. We can cover the truth, keep it concealed believing that it won't be received by most or we can share it. Mr 4:21 ¶ And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick?

Lu 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Mt 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Lu 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

Mt 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Lord Jesus, give us the grace, knowledge, wisdom and love to share your Good News with everyone in the house. May your blessings be on us in a way that is evident and in ways that are not seen as well.

from 'Christ Triumphant" by Thoma Allin

I would sum up by repeating the three propositions already stated... (I.) Christ's Purpose of salvation was deliberately formed to include the whole of our race, and no less. (II.) He received for this end ALL POWER, i.e., power over all wills, all evil, all obstacles, whatsoever and wheresoever. (III) The Bible claims; the Prophets claim; the Evangelists claim; the Apostles claim; Christ claims absolute success in this task.

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Ro 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ro 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

The Living God IS The Savior of ALL Men~ E.M.

19. God is the Savior of all men. “We both labor and suffer reproach because we trust in the living God who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.” I Tim. 4:10. God is called the Savior of all men, because it is his will and purpose that all shall be saved, and because all necessary means are provided for its accomplishment.

His Purpose, His Pleasure, His Will are One! From 150 Reasons by EM posted here by Jack

15. His purpose will be accomplished. “The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have PURPOSED so shall it stand – for the Lord of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? And his hand is stretched out and who shall turn it back?” Isa. 14:24, 27. “I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass: I have purposed it, I will also do it.” Isa. 46:11.
16. It is the pleasure of God that all shall be redeemed. “For thou hast created all things,
and for they pleasure they were and are created.” Rev. 4:11. “As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked.” Ezek. 33:11.
17. His pleasure will be accomplished. “My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.” Isa. 46:10.
18. God will never have any other purpose, pleasure or will, for he is “without variableness or shadow of turning.” James 1:17. Who can doubt the salvation of all men?

To know Him is to understand His purposes! E.M. posted by Jack

14. God purposes the salvation of all men. “Having made known unto us the mystery of his
will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth, even in him.” Eph. 1:9,10. What do the words, “all things which are in heaven and on earth,” signify? Professor Steuart, one of the most prominent Orthodox divines and writers in the Union, says they mean the UNIVERSE, and in exact accordance with this definition, Archbishop Newcome says, they signify all INTELLIGENT BEINGS. It is the purpose of God, then, to gather together, in Christ, the universe of intelligent beings. A purpose worthy of our great Creator.

No Power Can Defeat His Will - Erasmus Manford points 12 and 13

12. It is the will of God that all shall be saved. “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” I Tim. 2:4. Of course, as ‘God is love,’ it must be his will that mankind should be saved. An infinitely good being could have no other will. And as he is infinite in knowledge he could not so will unless he knew all would be saved. He could not will that that should take place which he knew never would.
13. No power can defeat his will. “Thy will be done.” Matt. 6:10. “He doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?” Dan. 4:35. “He worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.” Eph. 1:11. The will of God, then, will be done. No power can defeat it. It is certainly a doctrine of revelation that our God will save all men.

God Owns You! Reason eleven by Erasmus Manford

11. God is the Owner and Proprietor of all men. “Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine.” Ezek. 18:4. God is too wise and good to give any to the devil, and He has too much power to have any forced out of his hands. As all men now belong to God they always will.

Reason Ten of One Hundred and Fifty - Erasmus Manford

10. God is unchangeable. “He is in one mind, and who can turn him?” Job 23:13. Therefore he always will be what he is now: omniscient, all-knowing, omnipotent, omni-present, infinitely good, holy, merciful, just, and a universal Father. Before God can deal with mankind as Partialism teaches, all his moral attributes must be the reverse of what they now are. But as God is unchangeable, that is impossible, and therefore Partialism is false. In the language of Rev. Asa Shinn, a celebrated Methodist preacher and writer, “Why are we glad that God is Almighty? Because He is Almighty Goodness. Why are we delighted that His understanding is infinite? Because it is the understanding of Infinite Love. Why are we pleased when we hear that God is Unchangeable? Because it brings to our view a Benevolence which will NEVER VARY. And why do we rejoice that He is Just? Because we hence learn that the Energy of Love will NEVER CEASE to maintain and defend every thing that is right, and to oppose every thing that is wrong.” – Benevolence and Rectitude of the Supreme Being, p. 312.

3 more of 150 reasons - E.M.

7. God is merciful. “But Thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion and gracious, long suffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.” Ps. 86:15. This needs no comment, for it is impossible for such a being to torment without relief, and without end, millions of his own offspring.
8. God is just. “A just God and a Savior.” Isa. 45:21. It would certainly be unjust to inflict
endless punishment for the sins of a few days; and as God is strictly just, he will not deal thus with any of his creatures. Justice requires that the transgressor shall be punished righteously, but not unmercifully. As God is also a Savior he will save as well as punish.
9. God is the Father of all mankind. “Have we not all one Father?” Mal. 2:10. One is your Father which is in Heaven.” Matt. 23:9. Is there a human parent who would eternally torment his offspring? Would not the most depraved save all of them if they could? Is our heavenly Father less kind than earthly parents are?

Reason Six by Erasmus Manford

6. God is holy. “Holy is the Lord of hosts.” Isa. 6:3. A holy God could not build a prison, dedicate it to every vile and hateful passion, and then crowd it with beings of his own workmanship, where they must sin and suffer for ever and ever. A monster of depravity might do so.

Reason 5: Erasmus Manford

5. God is Omnipresent. “O Lord, thou has searched me and known me”; “Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.” Ps. 139:1, 12. As God, who is love, fills immensity, we cannot, on earth or in eternity, “go where universal love smiles not around.” If there is an endless hell, full of devils and damned souls, God is there, and there, too, his love is displayed! Will those who believe in endless wrath inform us wherein infinite love is manifested in that world of woe?

Reason Four - Erasmus Manford

4. God is Omnipotent. “The Lord Omnipotent reigneth.” Rev. 19:6. Therefore, nothing is too mighty for him to do. He can save the world. Where is the Christian who would not redeem all mankind, had he the power? God possesses the power, and will he not do it? Is the creature better than the Creator? God forbid any should think so.

Reason Three - Erasmus Manford

3. God is love, is infinitely good. “There is none good but one, that is God.” Mark 10:18. On the words “God is love,” Dr. A. Clarke, the celebrated Methodist Commentator, writes as follows:
An infinite Fountain of benevolence and beneficence to every human being. He hates nothing that he has made. He cannot hate, because he is love. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good; and sends his rain on the just and the unjust. He has made no human being for perdition. It has been well observed that although God is holy, just, righteous, etc., he is never called Holiness, Justice, etc. in the abstract, as he is here called Love. This seems to be the essence of the Divine nature, and all other attributes to be only modifications of this.”
God, then, never created a soul knowing it would be miserable forever.

Reason Two - Erasmus Manford

2. God must have designed what he knew would be the eternal destiny of each individual of our race. If he knew all would be saved, he must have designed the salvation of all; and if he knew part would be saved, and part damned without relief and without end, he must have designed the salvation of some and the damnation of others. Every man designs what he knows will be the result of his voluntary acts. If I know when I speak to a certain person he will fall at my feet dead, and if I persist in speaking to him with this knowledge of the consequence, I, of course, intend he shall die; so if God knows the destiny of all men, and I have proved that he does, all who go to heaven will go there by his decree, and all who go to hell will go there by his decree. This is just as certain as that two and two make four. Arminianism, then, is resolved into Calvinism. Would God have created conscious beings, knowing and intending that eternal misery would be their doom? Impossible, utterly impossible, for

ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY REASONS

ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY REASONS
FOR BELIEVING IN THE FINAL SALVATION
OF ALL MANKIND
By Erasmus Manford
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“What is Truth?”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Second Edition
Cincinnati
Manford and Torrey
1849
The Reasons:
1. God is Omniscient. “His understanding is infinite; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done.” “Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.” Psalm 147:5; Isa. 46:10; Acts 15:18. God, then, as well knew when he created Adam what would be the eternal destiny of every individual of his posterity, as he will know when the last generation of man shall have entered on their eternal state. If all are to be saved, he knew it; and if part are to be saved, and part eternally damned, the fate of each individual soul was known to him. These conclusions are just as certain as that God’s knowledge is infinite.

Free Must Read Book post by Jack D

The most persuasive verses that are used to argue in favor of eternal damnation use the word aion spelled, alpha – iota – omega – nu, as eternal or for ever etc.

The Septuagint is the Old Testament translated from Hebrew to Greek. It was translated some 200 years before Jesus earthly ministry. Jesus and the Apostles apparently used the Septuagint when they quoted the Old Testament, so it must be an okay translation. It is also apparent that the word aiwn did not mean without end or for ever, even though the KJV did translate it that way.


Numerous passages using aion in the Septuagint
show clearly it cannot mean “never-ending.” Note these few:

♦ Jonah was in the fish forever [aiwnioi] until he left three days
later (Jon. 1:17; 2:6).
♦ Sodom’s fiery judgment is eternal [aiwniou] until God returns
them to their former state (Ez. 16:53-55; Ju. 7).
♦ A Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord’s congregation forever
[aiwna] until the 10th generation (De. 23:3).
♦ Mountains are everlasting
[aiwniav] until they are scattered
(Hab. 3:6).
♦ A slave serves his master forever
[aiwna] until death ends
his servitude (Ex. 21:6). Or until the year of Jubile. Le 25:13
♦ The Mosaic covenant is everlasting
[aiwnion] until it vanishes
away (Le. 24:8; He. 8:7-13).
♦ The Aaronic priesthood is everlasting [aiwna] until the likeness
of Melchizedek arises (Ex. 40:15; Nu. 25:13; He. 7:14-22).
♦ These “stones” are to be a memorial forever[aiwnov] until (Jos. 4:7)?
Where are they now?
♦ The leprosy of Naaman shall cling forever [aiwna] until Gehazi’s death, or sooner… (2K. 5:27 2K 8:4-5 we find Gehazi in the presence of the King having a nice chat. Not likely if he was still white with leprosy).
♦ God dwells in Solomon’s temple forever [aiwnov] until it is destroyed
(2Ch. 7:16; 1K 8:13; 9:3).
♦ Animal sacrifices were to be offered forever [aiwna] until
ended by the work of Christ (2Ch. 2:4; He. 7:11-10:18).
♦ Circumcision was an everlasting [aiwnion] covenant until the
new covenant (Ge. 17:9-13; 1Co. 7:19; Ga. 5:6).
♦ Israel’s judgment lasts forever [aiwnov] until the Spirit is
poured out and God restores it (Is. 32:13-15).

The preceding list and most comments are from Gerry Beauchemin's book HOPE BEYOND HELL available free online at HopeBeyondHell.net I inserted the Septuagint words and added a bit to the contents so if you want to know exactly what Gerry said, you'll just have to go online and get his book...or if you know me, come to my house and ask for a hard copy, I have a few available for free.

Cool Verses posted by Jack

Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied:
Lu 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Jo 4:42 …this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
1Jo 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Isa 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
Ro 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth!
Ro 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Ro 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Lu 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Christians Metanoeite! by Jack D

Did you know that the Greek word for repent literally means to think differently! Christians, we need to "repent", that is, “think differently”.

Doesn’t God command us to think of others as better than ourselves. Php 2:3… in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

Didn’t Jesus save us when we were yet in our sins? Eph 2:3And (you) were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, …5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

How can those who die not knowing Jesus be better than someone who trusted Jesus in this life?

Easy! Because God is able to make them stand just like he made us believe in him. After all it is by grace you are saved and that NOT of yourself it IS the gift of God, and Ro 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. With man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

Reflection - by Thomas A

Reflect what it is the popular creed is, in fact, teaching - see its inconsistencies - the contradictions of Scripture, to which long usage has deadened its supporters. Christ "holding the keys of hell" and never opening; Christ "making all things new," and yet things and persons innumerable not renewed; the Good Shepherd "seeking till He finds," and yet never finding those precisely who need Him most; "no more pain," and yet pain for evermore; "no more curse," and yet hell echoing for ever with the curses of the lost; "tears wiped from every eye," and yet the lost for ever weeping; every creature which is in "heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, saying, 'Blessing and glory and honor to God,"' and yet a number of creatures shut up for ever and ever in misery; "all made alive in Christ," and yet many sunk in hopeless, endless death.

John 17:1 Quotes Jesus

Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Valid Questions Deserving Non Evasive Answers - by Thomas A

I fully recognize, the honesty of my opponents; but it is something more than strange to see thoughtful men teaching that Christ "sees of the travail of His soul and is SATISFIED," while He surveys to all eternity even one immortal spirit for whom He died - one child of His Love in the grip of endless evil, or annihilated.

Permit me further - for I want again to protest against the dishonor done to Scripture by the popular creed - permit me to ask what the meaning is, on the popular view, of the oft-repeated promises of the New Testament assigning to Christ an universal empire? Is IT TRUE, that it is the Father's pleasure that in Christ all things, Eph. 1:10 - the original words are the widest possible - are to be summed up? Is it true that Christ has actually abolished death; nay, that He has been manifested for this very end, that He might destroy all the works of the devil? Or is it a mere dream of the Evangelist, when He tells us that God has given to Him all things, and that all things that the Father has given to Him shall come to Him? But if all this is actually written in Scripture, how can it be truly taught that sin and hell are endless? Can sin be everlasting, and yet the sin of the world be truly taken away by the Lamb of God? Can hell for ever prey on the lost and yet the whole creation be delivered into the glorious liberty of the children of God? Once again, let me say, that a fair answer is due to these questions, and not an answer which is, however honestly meant, in fact an evasion.

Consider These Words - short exerpt from Christ Triumphant

"If but one soul were to remain in the power of the devil, death, or hell, to all endless eternity, then the devil, death, and hell would have something to boast of against God. Thus death would not be entirely swallowed up in victory, but always keep something of his sting, and hell would ever more be able to make a scorn of those who would say, 'O hell, where is, your victory?'"- The Everlasting Gospel -- Paul Seigvolck, 1753.

This being so, let me next ask, have you, who maintain the traditional creed, ever quietly thought over the terrible slight you unconsciously offer to the whole work of Christ, to His Incarnation and His Passion, by asserting the final loss of countless myriads of our race, or even of any soul for whom He died? He has come, we know, to save the world, He, very God of very God, but you proclaim in all your writings, in all your pulpits, that which is, in fact, His defeat. His Apostles announce, in language strong and clear, in words that still throb with life, His victory over death. You announce death's victory over Him, for hell filled to all eternity with its wailing millions is His defeat, nay, His utter defeat. Could you more effectually make light of His Atonement?

Tim, this is for you! : )

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

In these two verses we have some very interesting information.
First: vs. 26 – whosoever believes while they live shall never die.
Second: He that believes on Jesus, even after he is dead, shall at some point live.
Isn't it amazing how this info contradicts the belief in eternal damnation, but is in perfect harmony with the restitution of all? Jesus says a believer can't die, but someone who is dead can believe. Only a deceased unbeliever can be dead in the sense that Jesus was talking about here.

Believest thou this?

Later, vs.32-39 when Jesus saw Mary's faith wavering and the unbelief of her friends, Jesus wept.

Thanks For All the Feedback and Comments by Jack D.

For those of you who don't know sarcasm when you hear it... The title of this post is just that. It appears I am just the fool standing on a street corner preaching to the wind while gawkers drive by and justifiably mock. I take comfort in knowing that at least the words have been recorded. I realize that my attempts to communicate what is in my mind the greatest truth this planet could ever grasp are feeble in spite of the overwhelming support they have in Scripture. I would be willing to continue posting if more than one person was reading, but evidence suggests it is time to climb down off my soap box, pick it up and put it away. After all I can post my notes in a folder on my hard drive or email the two people who might be interested.

Another "Post" by Thomas Allin

Such is a brief outline of the teaching of the New Testament, for I have not quoted all its promises of universal salvation. It is no case of building upon Eastern metaphors, of dogma resting upon mistranslations or misconceptions of the original, as in the case of the traditional creed. It is evidence, clear and unambiguous, and repeated. We have without doubt line upon line, promise upon promise, assertions reiterated, accumulated, yet amid all their variety, closely linked and pointing to one central thought. This thought is none less than the completeness of the triumph of Jesus Christ!! It includes the boundless nature of His saving empire over all, to the assurance of a victory won by His Incarnation, His death, and His Resurrection over all the powers of evil. "The Father willed through Christ to reconcile the universe once more unto Himself, and so to restore all things whatsoever and wheresoever they be." -- LIGHTFOOT on Col. 1:19,20.

A Quote From a Very Old Writing - posted by Jack

The following excerpt comes from Thomas Allin's Christ Triumphant...

S. Peter, too, speaks to the same effect. He tells of Christ's preaching the Gospel to the dead, who had been disobedient and died -- a story whose significance is the greatest possible, as indicating how behind the veil Christ works on to heal and to save even those who died in sin. He adds, that the Lord is not willing that any should perish. Is God's deliberate counsel -- such is the original word -- to come to nothing? Then, in the Epistle to the Hebrews, we have this same remarkable testimony, e.g., the assertion that all things are to be put under Christ. It is stated that His object in dying was to destroy the devil -- that once, at the conclusion of the ages, He has appeared to put away, i.e., abolish sin by His sacrifice of Himself. Can anyone explain how the abolition of sin can be consistent with maintaining evil in hell for ever? Thus, the traditional creed seems to stand hopelessly opposed to the teaching of Scripture. Does it not almost deny God Himself, because if we are to believe in God at all, there is no room for a defeated God. Therefore, either God really wills to save all men, and if so, He will assuredly accomplish this, or He does not so will. The first proposition involves the larger hope -- the second is mere Calvinism. I can see no rational alternative.

Israel is referred to as the Firstfruits

"FOR IF THE CASTING AWAY OF THEM BE THE RECONCILING OF THE WORLD,WHAT SHALL THE RECEIVING OF THEM BE, BUT LIFE FROM THE DEAD * * FOR IF THE FIRSTFRUITS BE HOLY, THE LUMP IS ALSO HOLY." Rom,. 11:15-16.

"AND SO ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED." Rom. 11:26.

Knowing Jesus - The Key to Understanding

The key to understanding the bible is knowing the author. The better we know him, the better we can understand what His words are communicating. Our first goal, in studying the Word, is to get to know Jesus, the Living Word.

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

If our first order of business is to come to a deep understanding of Jesus, we will find that He is the life of the world (Jn 6:51), the light of the world (Jn 8:12), agape love (1Jn 4:8), never changing (Mal 3:6), all powerful(Jer 32:27), his mercy endures as long as mercy is needed. He is tender, rejoices in the truth, He is truth, He is the way. He is patient, kind and cannot be provoked (1Cor 12). In Him is no darkness at all (1Jn 1:5). He is the creator of all and there is not greater love than the love he has for the world (Jn 15:13). He demonstrated perfect submission to our Heavenly Father for us to follow His example. (Php 2:5-10) etc. etc.

I’ve not begun to scratch the surface, but with knowing Jesus as our foundation, we then should use extreme caution when words of translators appear to contradict or conflict with what God’s word tells us about Himself. Since we know that God’s word was written to tell us about Himself primarily (Jn 5:39) therefore when the translators words teach us about a dark end, a changing attitude, a breach of mercy, a point of provocation that can’t be forgiven, a creatures will that prevails over God’s will, we certainly need to look carefully to find out why there is a discrepancy. For instance, when God, who cannot lie, says through his apostle John, He sent His son to be the savior of the world (1Jn 4:14), and a doctrine comes along that says He is only going to save a few, and the rest He’s going to torture forever. Or when He tells us through Paul Ro 5:18 that by the offense of one all are condemned; even so by the righteousness of one all are justified. And we find conflicting information we need to discern where the error lies. God does not contradict himself. Either the many clear statements which claim Jesus to be the Saviour of the World are incorrect, or the doctrine giving eternality to judgment is incorrect. The two ideas are mutually exclusive. You can’t have it both ways without claiming agnosticism, (I don’t know ism).

Something’s gotta give! I believe a careful examination of the concept of eternity when applied to God’s judgments uncovers a strong bias in the most popular English translations in favor of the doctrine of eternal damnation, that isn’t even found in any of the original language manuscripts available today. I am aware that to search this out takes a fair amount of effort, but there are many who have already done massive amounst of research who can help those who are interested know where to look, greatly reducing the amount of effort required. We also have powerful bible study tools that past generations did not have making the search for truth attainable to the average student of the Word. I am more than willing to help anyone who wants to search this out for themselves. I will even give away Bible software with which you can look at the original language words and their definitions with the click of a mouse.

Love in Christ – Jack D

More Verses That Contradict The False Doctrine of Eternal Damnation

"AND THE LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS. AND THERE SHALL BE NO MORE CURSE" Rev.22:2-3.

"THE TIMES OF RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS." Acts 3:21.

"AND HAVE HOPE THAT THERE SHALL BE A RESURRECTION * * BOTH OF THE JUST AND THE UNJUST." Acts 24:15.

"THE PROMISE THAT HE SHOULD BE THE HEIR OF THE WORLD * * TO ABRAHAM." Rom. 4:13.

"THEREFORE AS BY THE OFFENSE OF ONE, JUDGMENT CAME UPON ALL MEN TO CONDEMNATION; EVEN SO BY THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF ONE THE FREE GIFT CAME UPON ALL MEN UNTO JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE." Rom. 5:16-18.

"BECAUSE THE CREATURE ITSELF ALSO SHALL BE DELIVERED FROM THE BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION INTO THE GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD. FOR WE KNOW THAT THE WHOLE CREATION GROANS AND TRAVAILS IN PAIN TOGETHER UNTIL NOW. * * WAITING FOR THE ADOPTION, TO WIT, THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODY." Rom. 8:21-22-23.

Posted by Jack D.

True Story About a Bully - by Jack D.

Growing up in a middle class urban neighborhood in Norwalk, California I saw my fair share of bullies. Walking to school, one day when I was in kindergarten a sixth grade boy came up to me on his bike and said, “You’re chose!” He didn’t seem to be friendly, and I was confused. Others explained to me that he had chosen me to fight. All day long, I had the encounter playing in my head and all day I wondered what might become of the threat. Well I had barely gotten off school property when the bully found me again, and he wanted to fight. To be honest, I was very ashamed to be afraid of him, but I was afraid and I certainly didn’t want to try and fight him when I knew I couldn’t prevail. The emotions of it were too much and as he began hitting me, I began crying and tried to run away. Apparently this was enough for the sixth grader. All he apparently wanted was to establish his superiority. Having established it, he was decent enough to leave me alone and not torment me anymore.
Some people entertain the idea that God is going to bring his enemies in subjection by his superior power and might. That He will make his enemies bow their knee and profess Jesus to be Lord and then after coercing this expression of submission from them he will continue to cast them into the most horrid torment. Even after they are recorded as saying, "AND EVERY CREATURE WHICH IS IN HEAVEN, AND ON THE EARTH, AND UNDER THE EARTH, AND SUCH AS ARE IN THE SEA, AND ALL THAT ARE IN THEM, HEARD I SAYING BLESSING AND HONOUR, AND GLORY, AND POWER, BE UNTO HIM THAT SITS ON THE THRONE... Rev. 5:13. Regardless of their pleas for mercy, regardless of their change of attitude, regardless of the genuineness of of their submission, they then get brutally submerged in the most horrid agonies which are at this time beyond our comprehension. Why? Where is God’s love? My bully relented when I offered no resistance, but God will cast these who are infinitely weaker than Him into eternal horror, pain and torment right after they praise Him and submit to Him?
When I voice my opinion of the wrongness of such a false scenario, I am told, “You are judging God!” “You can’t judge God.”
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things…
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
I am NOT judging God when I point out the inconsistencies of the ideas put forth regarding “eternal” damnation. I AM judging whether or not this dogma is good. As I compare it with Scripture, it raises hundreds of apparent contradictions. As I compare it with Greek usage, it fails to faithfully express the ideas originally presented. As I compare it with early church history, it fails to match up with the overwhelming statements of the early church fathers. As I compare it with the biblical expression of the character of Christ and of God, it makes a mockery of Jesus own claims regarding his mission. It contradicts the love of God, the mercy of God, the unchangeableness of God and the just judgment of God. If the concept of eternal is removed from the judgments of God, then all these apparent contradictions go away. Hmmm.

Please Explain These Verses. - Jack D.

"THE SON OF GOD WAS MANIFESTED THAT HE MIGHT DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL." 1Jn3:8

"THE FATHER SENT THE SON TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD." 1John 4:14.

"FEAR NOT * * I HAVE THE KEYS OF HELL AND DEATH." Rev. 1:18.

"AND EVERY CREATURE WHICH IS IN HEAVEN, AND ON THE EARTH, AND UNDER THE EARTH, AND SUCH AS ARE IN THE SEA, AND ALL THAT ARE IN THEM, HEARD I SAYING BLESSING AND HONOUR, AND GLORY, AND POWER, BE UNTO HIM THAT SITS ON THE THRONE... Rev. 5:13.

"DEATH AND HELL WERE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE" Rev. 20:14.

"BEHOLD * * I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW." Rev. 21:5.

Just a few more verses contradicted by the concept of "Eternal" damnation!

The Doctrine of Eternal Damnation Contradicts the Claims in the Gospels!

"FOR THE SON OF MAN IS COME TO SAVE THAT WHICH WAS LOST." S. Matt 18:11. (What are those who are damned if they aren’t lost?) Eternal damnation says He failed to save the lost.

"BUT I SAY UNTO YOU LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, DO GOOD TO THEM WHICH HATE YOU * * AND YOU SHALL BE THE CHILDREN OF THE HIGHEST." S. Luke vi. 27-35.
(Will not God do good to them that hate Him?) (Jesus forgave his enemies at the cross, but the eternal damnationists say that He who is unchanging is going to change from love and mercy to spite and wrath without mercy.)

"BUT WHEN A STRONGER THAN HE SHALL COME UPON HIM AND OVERCOME HIM, HE TAKES FROM HIM ALL HIS ARMOR, WHEREIN HE TRUSTED AND DIVIDES HIS SPOILS." S. Luke xi. 22; S. Matt. xii. 29. (The stronger one gets the human race! Who is that? Jesus or Satan?) Satan gets the most according to the popular dogma.

"WHAT MAN OF YOU HAVING AN HUNDRED SHEEP * * IF HE LOSE ONE OF THEM, DOES NOT LEAVE THE NINETY AND NINE * * AND GO AFTER THAT WHICH IS LOST UNTIL HE FIND IT ?" S. Luke xv. 4. (Maybe we care more for our sheep than Jesus does for lost humans.)

"THE SAME CAME * * THAT ALL MEN THROUGH HIM (CHRIST) MIGHT BELIEVE." S. John i. 7. (Well He hoped they would but apparently He misjudged. Most will never believe! It was a nice thought though.)

"BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD, WHICH TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD." S. John i. 29. (But allows most people to keep their sin cause they like to live in torment.)

"FOR GOD SENT HIS SON * * THAT THE WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED." S. John iii. 17. (I guess this plan didn’t work out?) (Why didn’t He say “that a few chosen out of the world might be saved? That would certainly fit the dogma of eternal damnation better.)

"THE CHRIST, THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD." S. John iv. 42. (Well almost? You see most of the world has rejected the Salvation so they are going to burn forever.)

"(HE) WHICH GIVES LIFE UNTO THE WORLD" S John vi. 33. (Of course, they rejected it. Oh well.)

"THE FATHER LOVES THE SON, AND HAS GIVEN ALL THINGS INTO HIS HAND." S. John iii. 35.

"ALL THAT THE FATHER GIVES ME SHALL COME TO ME; * * AND THIS IS THE FATHER'S WILL * * THAT OF ALL WHICH HE HAS GIVEN ME * * I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING." S. John vi. 37-39. What does the eternal damnation believer say to this? Notice the key word here… should…He should lose nothing but obviously HE messed up!

"MY FLESH, WHICH I WILL GIVE FOR THE LIFE OF THE WORLD." S. John vi. 51.
(He gave the full price, but we are going to rip Him off and He only gets a small portion of what He purchased.) ( I guess He made a bad deal.) (For as many people as He’s actually getting He could have just paid an arm or something.)

"AND I, IF I BE LIFTED UP FROM THE EARTH, WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME." S.John xii. 32. (Wrong again!) If eternal damnation holds anyone, then he doesn’t draw all. He only attempts to draw all succeeding to get only some.

"FOR I CAME NOT TO JUDGE THE WORLD, BUT TO SAVE THE WORLD." S. John xii. 47. (But I changed my mind? I underestimated their stubbornness.)

"JESUS, KNOWING THAT THE FATHER HAD GIVEN ALL THINGS INTO HIS HANDS." S. John xiii. 3. (Dropped most of them according to the popular theory.)

"AS YOU GAVE HIM AUTHORITY OVER ALL FLESH. THAT WHATSOEVER YOU HAVE GIVEN HIM, TO THEM HE SHOULD GIVE ETERNAL LIFE." S. John xvii. 2.
Eternal damnationists! Tell me what happened?

"IT IS FINISHED." S. John xix. 30; (You mean as in ”I quit”?)

"AND HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS; AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY, BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD." 1 S. John ii. 2. (Apparently he created most of the people in the world to be too stupid to accept it, if only He could have made more people sensible enough to accept it. Well, of course it’s better that they be allowed to burn forever, than to make their will just soft enough to turn at His reproof. Bummer dude. Well we saved ones will be happy to warm ourselves by the fire of our stupid loved ones torment.

"HE WAS MANIFESTED TO TAKE AWAY SINS." 1 S. John iii. 5. Just some sins, mind you.

Joh 1:29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (What he meant was Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of part of the world, cause most of you vipers are going to reject him and you and your rebellion are gonna burn forever!

I welcome your comments if you believe in Eternal Damnation. Tell me how these verses are in harmony with your belief. Take them one at a time and explain how the Bible can make such bold claims that are contradicted by “Eternal” judgment.

Jack D.

What Do You Say? by Jack D.

"THE IMMUTABILITY OF HIS COUNSEL." Heb. 6:17.

No failure is possible. What God's immutable counsel is, we see in 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance., where the original word translated "willing" is the same as "counsel" here. and

"HE HAS APPEARED TO PUT AWAY SIN BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF." Heb. 9:26.

Sin has intruded and caused an appearance of failure in God's plan. Christ comes to sweep sin away. When will our opponents meet fairly the dilemma, either Christ fails, or succeeds in His purpose. If He fails, you contradict Scripture. If He succeeds, you contradict your dogma. -Thomas Allin

He put away sin, he conquered death, he became the Savior of the world, He saved the lost, he saved sinners, and he will destroy the works of the devil, and he is in the Father reconciling the world unto himself. What do you say? Did he or did he not accomplish what he was sent by the Father to do? The prophets said he would, John the Baptist said He was in the process, and Jesus said He did. What do you say?

What About Free Will? By J.D.

It has been said that unless mankind has free will, we are nothing but robots and if we are nothing but robots, then God cannot get any satisfaction from our submission and love? This becomes the main rationale for excusing God from responsibility for eternally damning anyone.

It is said that God doesn’t send anyone to Hell but that we choose to go there by rejecting Jesus.

Let’s look at the evidence.

I see men in prison, who exercised their free will, but it conflicted with the will of others, and so their free will was severely limited by other men. Prison is seldom a free will choice, but is actually the result of other “free will” choices that were not acceptable to a more powerful system. How many people in prison would gladly leave if the doors were opened for them? Would it be fair to say that ninety percent would of their own free will leave prison if allowed to? We actually have a very humane prison system, and I wouldn’t be surprised if some chose to stay, “Three hots and cot” is the saying I’ve heard some of them say. Take away the three meals and the laundry service, the rest rooms, showers and the beds. Now how many would stay of their own free will? Perhaps a few mentally disabled? Now create a hostile environment, say, cause the temperature to rise above 140 degrees fahrenheit . Are any still remaining of their own free will? Not likely.
So what are we saying? Aren’t we really saying that people go to hell because they made a wrong choice? Nobody is going to Hell by their own free will to remain forever. The only way anyone could do that is to be mentally deranged, and God is the one who distributes mental capacity. So let’s explore the idea that people go to Hell for eternity for making a wrong choice. Does it not follow that for some to go to eternal hell for making a wrong choice, that the rest must have made a right choice? This scenario requires a right choice to get to heaven. True? Jesus told His disciples, “Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you,. Joh 15:19 … I have chosen you out of the world…Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Let these clear words of Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, sink in. Go ahead, read this passage again carefully.

Predestinated – this is a loaded word. Our destination was already worked out by God Himself without our help in any way, shape or form. What is the destination mentioned? Adoption by Jesus unto Jesus himself! According to what? Our choice? NO! According to the good pleasure of HIS will. Wherein we have been accepted because of our right choice? NO! Wherein HE HATH MADE US ACCEPTED! Redemption through our good choice? NO! Through HIS Blood.

{If anyone believes that they are saved by their choice, they are somehow missing the clear teaching of Scripture and are in danger of being resisted by God. Our salvation is not by our will, not by our choice, not by our merit or work, lest any man should boast. It is a gift that is wholly unearned, undeserved and to think otherwise is pride. We are assured that God resists the proud.}

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Here we have the assurance that God has made known exactly what His will is... His will that HE has purposed to accomplish! What is it??? That in the dispensation of the fulness of times ... that is at the end of time...he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him... Here we have God's will stated clearly enough along with the assurance that it is His purpose. Do you doubt His ability to accomplish His will? Is He like a mushy parent who won't assert His will to the destruction of His children? That is a very sad picture of God which contradicts the next verse: being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:


I see children squabbling over a game or toy each attempting to exercise their free will, which is conflicting with the free will of their companions. Again, the exercise of free will is limited by the impact it has on others of another will. When Billy needs the only remaining red lego block to finish his space station, and Jill see’s the same block as essential to the assembling of her house, one must yield. Both cannot have their will. (Isn’t this the source of most of the conflict in the world since the beginning of time?) Conflicting wills. The North didn’t “want” slavery, the South wanted the slave system to continue. Hitler wanted to control the world, the allied forces didn’t want it Hitlers way.
I see children, whose free will is being limited by their parents because their parents love them and want the best for them. No, you can’t pierce your tongue; No, you may not get drunk; No, I insist that you do your chores; Put down that computer game; Turn off the T.V.; Eat your dinner; Don’t hang with that crowd, etc. Although all children are given free will, wise and loving parents guide their children to make wise choices.
What happens when one persons free will conflicts with another persons? Both cannot have their will. Either the stronger asserts his or her will on the weaker, or the stronger compromises his or her own will because they perceive that the weaker one has a better idea, or sometimes the stronger allows the weaker to have his or her will in order to allow the consequences of that choice to become the teacher. “Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves.”

Yes, we have all been given “free will” and it comes from God. However, our free will is never without limitations. We may however, choose to reject God, disregard Jesus, curse God, reject our parents guidance, poison our minds, maim our bodies, and any number of things of this nature all of which bring consequences. Another word for consequences is judgments.

For instance, we may choose to reject our parents caution, and place our hand flat on the hot iron. Free will! The result is blistering pain. Most of God’s creatures conform their will at that point and purpose never to intentionally do that again.

The power of God is not to take away our free will, but to bring appropriate consequences when we violate His will that cause our will to be conformed to His better will.

Because we have a free will, God has designed judgments, that we all might eventually be conformed into His image, with our free will intact. To say that we must be allowed to have free will, that we be not robots is reasonable enough, but to say that God must allow us to continue in self destructive behavior, and that He, as a loving parent is not wise enough to prepare judgments that will ultimately turn us to Him, means that HE CANNOT HAVE HIS will.

Yes, God has free will too!

If anyone has free will it is God and He says He will have his way. Therefore, we must acknowledge that even though God has clearly given free will to us, He is most certainly able to refine us till our will becomes the same as His. Every knee shall bow. Yes all of His free will created ones shall willingly come to the point where they, without reservation, say with Jesus, not my will but thine, or to phrase it another way “Jesus is Lord”, and thereby become blessed forever.

Since our salvation has nothing to do with our free will, it follows that the judgment of Hell also has nothing to do with our free will. God, as a loving parent, has designed all His judgments with the purpose of conforming us to His will, which will be our deliverance. To say that God will send anyone to eternal torment, is to contradict in so many ways, the character of God, the will of God, the power of God and the Love of God.

Why do I think that this topic is worth the time I spend writing about it? Simply because it deals with our understanding of God himself. Ro 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God,

The false doctrine of Eternal Damnation is blasphemous to God and to Jesus. It teaches that Jesus did not accomplish the will of His Father. That God is not unchangeable. That God is not Love. That God is not smart enough or powerful enough to win our wills to willing submission to Himself. It screams out that LOVE FAILS. It does not glorify God as God..

This is the root of the most hideous sins which are prevalent in "Christianity" today. Read Romans 1:21 to the end of the chapter.

Change the way you think! Give God the Glory Due Unto His Name! Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints...

Who Has Been Given the MOST? by J.D.

Lu 12:48 … For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:..
Joh 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
Mt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
Mt 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
Re 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus has been given everything necessary to save every human being. God’s will is that not one should perish.This is God's requirement for Jesus. It is what the Father SENT THE SON TO DO! And He gave Him everything He needed to accomplish it! 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is... not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Jesus taught us to pray, Thy will be done on earth as it IS in heaven.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Ro 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Mt 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Lu 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Lu 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 1:29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Mt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever (pantote) liveth to make intercession for them.1Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14 ¶ And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

So what exactly will be required of Jesus by God the Father? He gave Him all power and authority, He gave Him the keys to death and hades, He gave Him the power to save to the uttermost, we are saved not by our will but by the will of God, He gave Him the power to raise Himself from the dead. He gave Him all things. He sent him to save the world, to save sinners, to save the lost, to save Israel. Jesus said, If I be lifted up from the earth I will draw ALL unto me.IF JESUS ONLY WINS THE HEARTS OF A FEW BY THE LAST DAY, THEN JESUS HAS NOT MET THE BOASTS OF THE PROPHETS, NOR ACCOMPLISHED THE WILL OF HIS FATHER ACCORDING TO THE CLEAR PROCLAMATIONS OF SCRIPTURE. I don't know about you but I believe He has fulfilled perfectly every prophesy of Scripture and that He accomplished exactly what His Father sent Him to do. That would include ALL of His will, and that He is on track to bring every created being into submission to Himself by the end of time so that He might turn it all over to the Father who then will be ALL in ALL.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

I’m not making this up! God’s word is overflowing with the message of GOOD NEWS to ALL people. There are multitudes of clear affirmations of this truth throughout Scripture. The verses that seem to teach “eternal damnation” are few, and they tend to have simple translation issues. The problem is, if they are true then Jesus didn’t accomplish His Father’s clearly stated will. He didn’t do what he was sent to do. He either isn’t Love or He isn’t unlimited in power. Do you really think He is held powerless by the will of the worst of people. I have GOOD NEWS! He is the Savior of All! 1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming…1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Trational Assumptions for our times by Tim L.

I have a poster on my office wall that came from who knows where of the inhabitants of earth leaving a burning city and fleeing one of two ways. A boatload of folks are following flashy neon arrows down a broad path into a deep crevice, presumably Hell. A few stragglers are crossing a narrow cross shaped bridge into a shining city, presumably Heaven. Those of us in the Church are so used to this symbolic crossing we don't stop ask ourselves how this could represent a victory for Christ! Christ wins a fraction and Satan wins the multitude. Is this the ultimate end or will these misguided multitudes ultimate become trophies for Christ? Here are a few other traditional assumptions:

1. Mercy triumphs over judgment...but only for a few. Does God really do a personality flip and switch from being a "judgment matches the crime" kinda God to an "unending torment for those who reject Him" persona?

2. His love endures forever...but for some its only a short experiment. The Bible says that this life is a vapor, so are those consigned to eternal torment only experiencing God's love as vaporous?

3. God is omniscient--all knowing...will he really continue to experience the grief of those billions in eternal torment while we are enjoying the blessing of heaven?

4. God is all powerful...but can't complete His stated desire to save all men. Is God really so passive as to let our "free will" carry us away from Him for eternity?

5. History is "His - story," He directs our steps...but is the real testimony of God's powerful hand on the time line that only a few lives have purpose, only a few will be refined, prepared and presented to Him complete?

These assumptions about our God fly in the face of the Biblical records! You will find clues throughout the Old and New Testaments concerning our just and merciful God. Are we to let tradition and a few mistranslated Greek words blind us to how wonderful a hope we can have for all the world?

Blessings!

The Effect of Excessive Discipline by Jack D.

case #1: Johnny! If you break any rule, I will have you locked in your room and beaten for a year as soon as your father gets home.

Poor Johnny, even though he wanted to be good, within a couple minutes has broken a rule. Now he knows he's getting the full brunt of the punishment when the time comes, so he might as well have at it the rest of the day. Since he is already going to pay the full price, he might as well get his money's worth. He may even try to run away, rejecting his parents.


case #2: Johnny. If you break a rule, I will have to discipline according to each offense. Johnny, I discipline you because your wrong actions are hurting you. The pain of discipline is to help you change your thinking so that you won't react in a harmful way in the future. A few minutes later, Johnny violates a rule. Appropriate discipline is given and though it hurts, Johnny is grateful for the maturity and cleansing it brings. He is left to consider his future actions will bring results according to his deeds. There is a healthy motivation for good behavior.

case #3 Johnny goes to the store with Mommy. Mommy say's "Johnny, don't touch anything. If you do, I will give you a swat for each thing you touch when we get home. A few minutes later, Johnny reaches out and touches some interesting artifact on a lower shelf. Mommy, looks at him and says, "That's one". A few minutes later as he reaches out and picks up another item of interest, Mommy says, Johnny! That's two.
I guarantee you, Johnny starts doing the math at a very young age.(As long as mom remembers and keeps her word.) A just punishment is extremely effective whereas an overly harsh punishment crushes the spirit and creates hatred, bitterness, and a breakdown in the relationship. God's stated work is to reconcile all to Himself,(2Cor 5:19) and he proclaims he will accomplish all his pleasure. (Isa 46:10)

How Much Can You Tolerate?

If you happened to be one of the myriads condemned to having to endure the horrors of eternal damnation, just how much could you tolerate? Could you tolerate the endless separation from love? The endless smoke and black darkness? The endless burning of flesh and stench? The endless hopelessness? The endless agony of pain and aching? The unceasing screams and groans of men, women and children as wave after wave of new torments sweep through the pain wracked bodies? The continual spewing of curses and profanity wretching out of the twisted mouths of your companions in misery? Where would this become intolerable to you? Maybe, if you are hard and tough, d'ya think you could tolerate this for an hour? A day? A week? How bout a month? Perhaps a year or two? A decade? A century? A millennium? Would it become intolerable to you after the first thousand millenniums, when you realize that you've expended no more of your sentence than the first second, indeed not even the smallest fraction of your sentence has been served, nor ever shall be? How could such a sentence be tolerable? Yet, we have these testimonies of Jesus in Matthew:

Mt 11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

Mt 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Mr 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Note that the phrase “more tolerable” implies tolerability in both cases. In other words, whatever judgment is being referred to here is tolerable for one and more tolerable for the other. Also note that in both cases, the judgment is given a time limit, it is “The day of judgment”. (Not the eternity of judgment.) Note also that one of those being judged is Sodom, of whom it is written,

“Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

We know that the burning of Sodom only lasted a very short time. It was hot and fast. So in this judgment, the victims received mercy as soon as they died in the form of respite from the flames. We find here in Matthew, that when the “day of judgment” arrives, it will be more tolerable for Sodom than for the religious leaders of Jesus day. Then in Ezekiel 16:46-63 it is clear that God is going to restore Sodom to fellowship with Himself, so Sodom becomes a perfect example of what eternal fire is really talking about. It would all be so much less confusing if the translators only were faithful to the meaning of the word aionios and aion. Then we would find Sodom to be an example suffering the vengeance of age pertaining fire. Everything would line up. But as it is we are left to decide that eternal doesn't mean without end or it isn't the correct word.

Anyway you slice it, we find God judging rightly, giving punishment where needed for correction and not just to be cruel. The judgment will always be just, that is, it will suit the crime and serve to restore the sinner to a place where he can be blessed.

Isa 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.

Do Men Go To Hell By Their Own Free Choice?

We have been given limited free will and this ingredient in our lives, largely makes up the individuality of each person. Some are given larger portions of free will than others. For instance, some are born with or aquire great wealth, which gives them more options than some who are stricken with poverty and physical and mental handicaps. Nevertheless, as I mentioned, all free will is limited by God’s withholding of power or ability to accomplish all our will. In spite of the fact that we do have free will, it can be demonstrated from Scripture that our will is not given the latitude to decide our salvation. God takes full responsibility for that. This becomes significant when we ponder the possibility of any created being getting placed into eternal damnation with all its horrors. Consider the following verses, how they give to God the responsibility and glory for any ones salvation.

Mt 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Mt 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you,

2Th 2:13 ¶ But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Jer 32:17 Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:

It is clear "who" does the saving. It is clear, we can’t even take credit for making the right choice. (Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me ).

Eph 2:4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

SWITCHING GEARS


“If God saved you, start to finish, if He who began a good work in you will finish it, what will stop Him from saving the rest of the world?” Where does it say, once you die, there is no more chance? Not in Romans: “Ro 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life….shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Ps 29:2 Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.
Even now some reading this, can not see that God could be this great, this good. This too, is God’s doing.
That is precisely why God will fit each time of purging exactly to the need of each of His created ones. (What would you think of the father of a blind child punishing that child for not seeing?)

What did Jesus mean?: Mt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Is God worse than a publican? Did you catch that? The references to this action of loving our enemies making us like the Father? Perfect? Will God who never changes lose His perfect love? NEVER! If somehow allowing the masses to be tormented without end equates to love, then light equates to darkness and truth equates to lies. We have no basis for understanding anything. THIS JUST ISN”T TRUE. God is LOVE. PERIOD.
God Himself takes responsibility for every mans destiny, and He clearly teaches that He will save all. Why do some insist that He won’t or can’t? He can, and He will!

Lu 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

If Everyone Gets Saved, Why Preach?

Critics of the greater hope have often asked some similar question to this. If everyone is saved, then why would the wicked want to leave their wickedness? Or, hey, let’s party on. Everything’s gonna work out!

First, I want to address the misconception that Universalists teach there is no Lake of Fire, no judgment, nothing to fear, God is only cuddly love and will bring everyone safely into the comfort of his embrace.
The only thing about judgment that Christian Universalists disagree with is its eternality!

Ps 94:10 He that chastiseth the heathen, shall not he correct? he that teacheth man knowledge, shall not he know?
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

God is in the business of chastening all those He loves. Look around you, everyone is getting chastening even now in this life. Chastening takes on many forms, sickness, weakness, frustration, heartache, wounds, loss, even death. Family issues, imprisonment, war, the list goes on and on. Some turn at God’s reproofs, others don’t. When we turn to Him we begin to get to know Him. This is aionios life. Some will go to the final reproof of the grave where they will come face to face with the reality of their own foolishness. It appears that some will have a change of heart, just like Jonah did. Just like the rich man, but then they must serve their time. Mt 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. When they have paid the uttermost farthing, the implication here is, they shall come out. They were objects of wrath. They went through the discipline necessary to shape their free wills to choose to willingly submit to Jesus, who has saved them, though as if by fire.

God not only judges the wicked, but he also judges the believers. Ah, this we don’t like to hear but it is true. God is no respector of persons. Ac 10:34

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
1Sa 2:3 Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.
Re 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

God forbid that we should take lightly God’s warnings of judgment, only because they aren’t infinite! What foolishness that would be!
God’s judgments are right and just. He disciplines the son in whom he delights. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.God’s judgments are real, they are fearsome, they are a form of encouragement to good works, but more so for those who believe than those who don’t. When we preach the contradictory message of an unchanging God of Love who will one day hate most of His children, we give excuse to many to not believe and benefit from the laws of God. God does not need our help in motivating sinners to come to Him by adding to His word, making His judgments infinite when they are proportioned to the sin.

Lu 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Christian, if these words are disconcerting to you, cheer up, after you are judged for your deeds you will be delivered into perfection in Christ. Now does this make you want to indulge in a life style that is displeasing to God? Or would this encourage you to be obedient and share the Good News with others?
Those who truly know Him, have a greater hope. If we judge ourselves, we shall not be judged. If we die to ourselves we shall experience the fullest life. If we forgive everyone who has offended us, we shall be forgiven. If we do not deny Him before men, He will not deny us before His father.

If we serve the Lord out of fear, our service will not bring the joy and peace that serving Him brings when it is motivated by love. Perfect love casts out fear. The child who willingly serves a good father out of love, has joy and peace but no fear, whereas a child who serves His father out of fear, has no peace or joy. Ro 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.. If we serve our heavenly Father motivated by love, we enter the Kingdom, we receive the rewards of righteousness, peace and joy, but if we serve Him out of fear, where are we? 1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We consequently remain in torment when motivated by fear. When we know the love of Christ which passes knowledge.

Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Paul The Apostle Is A Universalist

Did you know that Paul, the apostle, in all his extensive writings to the church, never once warns about or teaches about eternal damnation? Yet, he says, Ac 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. How can this be?
Was Paul momentarily uninspired? ... No! Paul is a Universalist.


Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (KJV)

Some who were defending the concept of eternal torment have responded to this verse by saying, "It's a gift and gifts have to be received." Perhaps that works for you?
That does seem to give a little wiggle room to the powerful teaching found in Rom 5, however, you'll notice the words in the KJV are in italics. The translators have put the words in italics to help the reader to know that those words are not in the Greek text, but are simply added to help the English flow. That's why Young's Literal Translation reads like this:

Ro 5:18 So, then, as through one offence to all men it is to condemnation, so also through one declaration of `Righteous' it is to all men to justification of life; (YLT)

This is crystal clear, and if you read the whole chapter, it is evident that God does all the work for us while we were yet enemies. He died for the ungodly, and that wherever sin abounds, grace MUCH MORE abounds.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

What was purchased? The whole field! According to Jesus. but Paul said:

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Have We Lost Our Moral Sense?

Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

God has placed in each of us a moral sense of what is right and what is wrong. Our moral sense tells us that to endlessly torment anyone is cruelty without purpose or benefit. It would be vindictive and hateful. Punishment is morally good only when it's designed to bring benefit to the afflicted. Anything else falls short of love. It is impossible to justify infinite punishment for any crime committed by a finite being, in a finite existence. This contradicts the very meaning of justify. For an accountants books to be justified, they must equal debits with credits. They must balance. Infinity can never be balanced with anything finite. Not even with everything finite combined. There can be no justice in infinite punishment inflicted for any amount of finite crimes. This would defy our moral sense if we still have one.



The advocates of endless evil evade the great moral issues. They will not face the question of the utter injustice of visiting finite guilt with an infinite penalty. They prefer to observe a discreet silence. They practically ignore the clear evidence of experts, which shows that moderate penalties are far more effective in repressing crime, and reforming the sinner, than are excessive punishments. They will not meet the arguments, which prove that the true conception of penalty is one, which, recognizing the need of retribution, yet lays the chief stress on its reformatory character.
They, in fact, substitute the "Great Taskmaster" for "Our Father," thereby obscuring, nay, almost denying, the fundamental fact of Christianity. They are strangely blind to the Vital question of the dualism virtually involved in teaching eternal evil. They do not seem aware that so to teach is to proclaim the defeat of Jesus Christ. They forget how indefensible is a dogma which, in fact, divides God into two Beings, which represents the unchanging One as changing from love here, to wrath hereafter. They have never explained when God Who "so loved the world" has ceased to love it, or how such a change is possible to Him, Who never can change. They attempt no answer when the moral degradation is pointed out, which a heaven involves, where we are to rejoice while our dear ones, or our fellowmen, for ever agonize. They are dumb, when asked to explain how sympathy can expire at the very gate of heaven; or how, if sympathy with the lost survive, the Blessed can know a moment's true joy. They do not explain how a process of degradation in hell can be endless: how moral rottenness can share the dignity of immortality: or how God can go on punishing His own children for ever, when all hope of amendment is past. They will not face the awful difficulty involved in God's free creation, in His own image, of myriads whom such a doom as hell to His certain knowledge awaits, They evade the difficulty, no less great, of conceiving a God, Who is Love, as watching to all eternity, unmoved and unloving, the agonies of His own children. They will not tell us why the savage is wrong, who mutilates his body to please his God; and the Christian is right, who mutilates his moral sense, his noblest part, by calling those acts good in God which he loathes in his fellowman.
This list, incomplete as it is, is sufficient to explain why those who would gladly, yet dare not, remain silent. God's honor is at stake: God's truth is at stake, when, in place of the Gospel, horrors are taught that especially wound that which is best within us, horrors that contradict alike man's conscience, primitive Christianity, and the express teaching of Holy Scripture. – Thomas Allin from “Christ Triumphant Universalism Asserted”

Look around you, I speak to thoughtful listeners. What is the fruit of the modern gospel? Where is the power of God today? Is it in the mega gatherings? Is it in the televangelists mansions? Is it in the multitudes of little gatherings dotting our land? Is it quenched because we are all preaching a false concept of God derived from tradition and from misleading translations of His life giving Word? How many preachers and pastors today are trapped in a pseudo spiritual existence for fear of losing their positions? These are not free to cross the tide of popular dogma. Unfortunately for them, the price is too high to even consider going there. So we perpetuate the myth of "eternal" hell, despite the insult it brings to the character of Jesus Christ and with no regard for the damage it brings to the coherency of the Word of God.

Unchangeable Love of God

God is unchangeably love. Therefore, in judgment He is love, in wrath He is love, in vengeance He is love-"love first, and last, and midst, and without end."
– Thomas Allin

(In the following paragraph, I have paraphrased Thomas Allin's nineteenth century words.)
There is nothing in the Universe stronger than love. Nothing more awesome; more relentless, yet tender. When love is seen in its true colors, there remains no excuse for the very common mistake of placing sin at the center of our moral system rather than grace. True! Judgment is still a real and valid truth, in fact it is a vital truth on which true Universalism is based, but Love is a greater truth that dominates the whole system. Therefore, it is imperative that we don’t “put the cart before the horse”. God’s Love is always the guiding force behind His judgment. Therefore punishment can't be endless.

Ro 5:20 ... But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

1Jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

A Sobering Thought

"Suppose it were offered to the father of three children to take his choice whether two should be received into heaven and one condemned to hell, or the whole should be annihilated in death. What would a parent say? Where is the father who would dare to secure the bliss of two children at the cost of the endless misery of one? Which of the family would he select as the victim, whose undying pain should secure his brother's immortal joy? Is there any one living who would not suffer himself and his children to sink back again into nothingness, rather than purchase heaven at such a price? Now, if so, if we should so act in the case of our own children, we are bound morally to make the same choice with respect to every one. No moral being would consent to purchase eternal happiness at the price of another's eternal woe. Hence it follows that a future life, on the popular view, is an evil to the human race, not to the wicked, but to all. For if annihilation of the whole race should be tendered as the alternative, no moral being could, as has been shown, refuse to accept it." - BARLOW, Eternal Punishment.

How can it be said that God the Father, whose very essence is agape love, has planned such an unloving act that has no redeeming good whatever?

What attribute in man would cause him to cling to such a belief in the face of the powerful Scriptural evidence against it? What attribute in man would cause him to refuse to view the evidence against eternal damnation dogma? What attribute would cause one to become agitated and irritated when confronted with biblical evidence against the prevailing, but awful belief?

What???